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Dope

Well, yes. It's one of the reasons I'm leaving
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo. We need as many sane voices on development as we can get. Good luck in L.A.

Contemporary planning (outside of NYC and some of the more NIMBY-ish suburbs, that is)

I migrated here from Knoxville, Tennessee expecting that New York would be far more progressive in its approach to development. Imagine my shock and disappointment to see just how regressive it was. For all of its charms, New York is far more insular and "backward" than I could have possibly imagined before living here. I LOVE New York City and especially Brooklyn, but we've got a lot of work to do if we want to preserve the best elements of this city and build a better future.

There are some good principles in New Urbanism, but its proponents will have to take into account things like social psychology, spatial analysis, and traffic-flow patterns (where and how do people walk when they're out in the neighborhood? do people actually gravitate to and use town squares, or do they just look nice?)

I agree completely, but I think part of the issue is that New Urbanism is often characterized as an aesthetic "school" containing a limited vocabulary of elements. That's a very reductionist view and it's typically employed by critics to dismiss the movement as simplistic or formulaic. I view New Urbanism much more as a philosophy or set of guiding principles that can be adapted to virtually any development context.

Then again, pinning down "New Urbanism" is probably about as easy as defining "Hip Hop" or "Post Modernism." I'm sure there are plenty of people who appropriate that label that are not what I would consider New Urbanists. But given that there is no certification or advisory board, I think we'll just have to agree that there are both good and bad associations with the term. At any rate, there is probably no single unifying principle of intelligent development, and I am firmly committed to opposing dogma of any type (see this excerpt from "Still Life with Woodpecker" for the best speech on the dangers of converting good ideas to dogma).

Stockholm Cindy

That is certainly a blind spot Cindy, but calling the decision makers and power brokers in New York City "planners" is a gross misapplication of the term.

Well, yes. It's one of the reasons I'm leaving (I'm off to study planning in LA, where they're finally starting to take these issues seriously). New York has always been about egos and money and the influence of corrupt politicians and the mafia. Ratnerville was the final push that sent me over the edge, since I live so close to it myself and I know that Fort Greene and the South Slope are well-established, thriving communities with a sense of identity and economic vitality. It's not greenfields, it's not brownfields, it's not a slum or a blight. It's been on a steady incline for the past few decades and it's absolutely fine the way it is. I really don't think this project would fly in any other city, but in NYC it's grudgingly accepted as a matter of course. We're setting bad precedents, and we shouldn't be.

We've got to get over the idea that anyone designs or builds a living city.

I agree -- it takes a lot more than aesthetics and ivory-tower philosophy to make a great city. Contemporary planning (outside of NYC and some of the more NIMBY-ish suburbs, that is) wants to take a "growth management" approach, which is like gently trimming a built environment's knotty, unruly hair and suggesting more easily maintainable hairstyles rather than shaving its head entirely. There are some good principles in New Urbanism, but its proponents will have to take into account things like social psychology, spatial analysis, and traffic-flow patterns (where and how do people walk when they're out in the neighborhood? do people actually gravitate to and use town squares, or do they just look nice?). But like I said, this is what many planners are looking at now.

Dope

One of Jacobs' biggest flaws was her across-the-board dismissal of "planners" and "governments" -- as if they're all the same everywhere and all adhere to the same principles.

That is certainly a blind spot Cindy, but calling the decision makers and power brokers in New York City "planners" is a gross misapplication of the term.

There is no planning, only a Darwinian lottery for limited space and public handouts - certainly not the evolved city planning that you are advocating.

I'm all for the organic growth of ecosystems, but if there's no one keeping watch over it, the bad guys will feel that they have even more carte blanche to bulldoze everything.

I don't think there should ever be a "one" keeping watch over the way a city adapts and grows. The ground rules should be agreed upon by the community, informed by experts, managed by public servants and adapted as the changing environment requires. We've got to get over the idea that anyone designs or builds a living city. It has never happened IMNSHO, but I am admittedly biased by my scientific background and selective observation of the world.

Dope

Mumford loathed Jacobs as a philistine. He yearned for a return to the twelth century that produced the first gothic cathedrals. Though he was a class scholar,
I wonder where he would have stood on Ratnerville.

Mumford was certainly an odd bird, which makes him all the more lovable. I seem to recall one of his primary theses was that cities arise because people want to be near their dead. I would have thought that proximity to transit routes, easily defended positions and natural resources would be more predictive. But what the hell do I know? I'm a philistine.

As for Ratnerville, his opinion would depend on whether his fetish for gothic cathedrals was based on some aesthetic element or the fact that they were grand artistic statements by brilliant architects.

If the latter, he might be drink the Gehry kool-aid and try to convince us that Miss Brooklyn was emblematic of the spiritual aspirations of Brooklynites.

Stockholm Cindy

One of Jacobs' biggest flaws was her across-the-board dismissal of "planners" and "governments" -- as if they're all the same everywhere and all adhere to the same principles. I know that her experience as a civic activist has been tainted by terrible urban renewal policies from the '40s through the '70s, and that a lot of the really high-profile re/development plans now are unfortunate exercises in greed. That's not the case everywhere, though. There are a lot of struggling older cities -- such as Milwaukee -- that really want to bring new blood into the core areas and see responsible, people-conscious development as the way forward.

The difference now is that most planners are on the side of the people, and are pro-density and smart growth. The zoning she hated so much is indeed based on antiquated ideas and needs to be re-examined, but without it we wouldn't have historic districts and all attempts at preservation would be futile. I'm all for the organic growth of ecosystems, but if there's no one keeping watch over it, the bad guys will feel that they have even more carte blanche to bulldoze everything.

Paul

Mumford loathed Jacobs as a philistine. He yearned for a return to the twelth century that produced the first gothic cathedrals. Though he was a class scholar,
I wonder where he would have stood on Ratnerville.

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